Manoj Sangany: Blending Business with Spirituality


In this podcast we talk with Manoj Sangany, founder of Spiritual Business Mastery a coaching service that offers creative energy coaching about blending business with spirituality.

What you will learn from this podcast

In this podcast we learn the following:

  1. What does spirituality really mean?
  2. Is it really possible to mix spirituality and business?
  3. The importance of knowing your values
  4. Why this is not just another new age fad
  5. Why coaching should include a ROI
  6. What are the common challenges faced by business owners
  7. The importance of sharing experiences with others

Why you should listen to this podcast

As an entrepreneur you imprint yourself onto your business and so by definition your business is an extension of yourself. Your values become the values of the business and this podcast explores what that truly means.

Spirituality is a word that evokes emotion and can be seen as something that should not be combined with a world that is more focused on profits and cash flow, however in this podcast Manoj shows that it is important to have a balance in your business as well as in your life

Podcast transcript:

00:00:10 Bhairav Patel:

Welcome to the Atom podcast where we have conversations with a range of business owners from across the globe and discuss their challenges, triumphs and failures when they try to rebuild and grow their own business. In addition, we talk about the latest trends in tech and generate anything that we feel is relevant for today’s tech-savvy audience. Welcome everybody to the Atom podcast. Today I’m here with Manoj Sangany. From well Incepteo and from the Spiritual Business Mastery coaching business, say hello Manoj.

00:00:43 Manoj Sangany:

Thank you very much for having me. Hello to you and hello to anybody listening out there.

00:00:47 Bhairav Patel:

Right. So this is what you do some work with Incepteo and that’s a very different business and that is actually a business. It’s very close to what Atom does and in many ways, I do want to talk to you about that, but probably having done a bit more research on you and as you mentioned to me, you, you have your own coaching business, which kind of I guess brings together a bit spirituality with business. And some of the other work you do with men’s mental health and actually the group that you’re doing, I believe it’s called it’s called mental health isn’t it?

00:01:14 Manoj Sangany:

It’s Mindful Men’s Club it’s called yeah.

00:01:16 Bhairav Patel:
Mine, yeah. And so having been through some of the videos there, I think actually this is a fairly new topic that I’ve never explored before and I would like to try and delve a little bit deeper into that. But before we go into that, can you talk to me a little bit about how Spiritual business Mastery came from? And how did that start? What’s the origin story?

00:01:36 Manoj Sangany:

Yeah, sure, sure. I guess at that time the narrative was it was an accident. So it wasn’t by design or plan or certainly my design or plan. And it started off from me on my normal commute to the B line, you know, Harry Wilson Station, which is one of the stations where I travelled to 16-minute Walk, 2 ladies were basically in there. So while I was waiting for my black Americano and Almond croissant, which is my go-to thing if I miss my breakfast. One lady was sort of talking about finding a role in marketing. I just happened to be head of support at Tag Worldwide which is commonly used to work for, which is a very, very large digital agency. And then the other lady was clearly finding something challenging about life. So one was consoling, the other is the best way to describe it. And obviously, I don’t know them, but I’m very talkative and and and you know and I can talk. I picked up on some antidotal, I guess conversational. Things, and I gave it, must have given one lady some advice because I was in marketing at the time. And the other lady, I wish I could remember, but she was saying something that just resonated with something that I went through in life. And I just said what I felt that’s it. And then didn’t think anything of it and then caught my train. And then I think a few weeks later my wife said, oh, why is your name keep coming up on these platforms. And I’m like, what platforms? You know what do you mean? And I didn’t realize that these two women posted on a social platform. Very large social platform actually it is now, but at that time it was like 6000 members but it was all female-only. So obviously I wouldn’t know about it, right? And it’s like ohh come have coffee with Manoj because he’s quite helpful and that’s turned into a bit of a thing, coffee with Manoj. Long story short, I can’t tell you the intersection between it was. Whether it’s a point of no return was which means it was too, I guess, long to go back and it was quicker just to carry on the journey. So in that process, I actually coached live over 2000 people. Hence on my LinkedIn it says 2K plus. So I’ve kind of left. It’s much more than that now, but I’ve left that as a reminder to me. So it turned into a social experiment. I did it for free because I’m not certified in any formal qualifications as a coach. I thought, OK, this is pretty cool, people actually getting some benefit from it, you know? Whether that’s life, business or career. So it was like all the categories you can imagine. And every Sunday, every Saturday, I would go back at the coffee shop where it all started because that way they were getting business. I didn’t want anything back from them. I just thought it’s nice to help a local business because I used to own a restaurant as well. And then so I had some synergies in terms of, you know, advice for them as well. And then, yeah, I just turned to a social experiment and then I remember volunteering on a Sunday at the Hare Krishna temple in Watford.

00:04:29 Manoj Sangany:

Uh, so if anybody doesn’t know about it, beautiful land donated by George Harrison from The Beatles. And I just got like a message, a download while chanting, saying. Spiritual bit like literally the name came to me. It’s spiritual business, martial law. That sounds really cool. I bet someone’s taken it, you know? So bought the domain, haven’t done anything with it since. Blessed the fact that there’s no kind of online presence other than a very small Facebook group. And that’s how the clients came. So that’s how the story started.

00:04:58 Bhairav Patel:

It’s very interesting actually. When I was Googling there was you and there’s something from Tony Robbins I think that has got something in there but the wording’s slightly different. But he uses the word spiritual business. And that’s the thing I wanted to ask you about. So spirituality and business is not something that you come across or it’s not really talked about as much now. I mean if it’s talked about, it’s talked about in more negative forms, right, where people have been denied business because of their faith or whatever it is, right. So you know what do you see as the as the kind of juncture of spirituality and business? Wwhat does that mean to you?

00:05:33 Manoj Sangany:

I think the intersection for me is quite clear that whether you’re in a career, whether you’re in business. At the core. Who is the person? So meaning that one of the person’s values and I’m not talking about their religious beliefs and that’s OK, I’m talking about their values. So my values are three which are integrity, honesty and transparency. So and at my core being I. Absolutely with every kind of you know sort of sell living being in me understand and believe that we all connected. So if we if I believe that we all connected then it has to start from the core of spirituality. So it matters not whether it’s life coaching, career coaching or business coaching. I think if you if you break if you take that label out, business, life, and career you actually speaking to people right humans one-on-one. So once you understand someone’s core values. And then you understand. And they don’t have to be spiritual cause, not everybody is. But right now there’s a bit of a craze going on because I think in the last, I think, I don’t know, like 10 years, everyone’s craving something. But here’s the thing, they always will crave something because once they understand that life is bigger than who you are. I believe that me and what we’re trying to impress upon any of your audience. But I thought, OK, so if I believe that in my core, and I believe that my legacy is about helping people and it is, and I’ve written my eulogy as well, not in a morbid way. And in a nice, happy way, because it’s very clear to me in terms of why I’m here on this Earth. Then I thought it has to start from that, so, hence why the word spirituality comes before anything. And I’m passionate about entrepreneurship, so I happen to help a lot of businesses who are startups. So that’s how it came about that spiritual, business mastery.

00:07:22 Bhairav Patel:

So I guess there needs to be something clarified at the beginning is what do you mean by spirituality? What’s your definition of that word?

00:07:28 Manoj Sangany:

Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s personal to everyone. I think to me personally it’s, it’s that we are all connected. So it goes. Beyond faiths, religion, breed, sex, gender and we are absolutely connected to each other in this universe. I think for me it’s about.. we are here to give back to others. So what I mean by that is that the footprint that we live in, we leave behind once we’re no longer here, it has to be something positive, So it’s that simple meditation on leave a place that you’ve entered better than when you’ve left it. That’s is the most simplest way I can describe it. I mean, I can talk for hours on this subject, but yeah, that’s a simple kind of my own definition.

00:08:14 Bhairav Patel:

It’s interesting because, you know, the BBC have recently come out with a podcast of about new age gurus and it’s talking about how you’ve got an explosion since I guess the last ten years or so of people online trying to give advice, spiritual advice. So, Russell Brand is apparently one.  Now he’s kind of he’s become huge. And he’s got millions of millions of followers and he’s trying to preach his own version of spirituality. And what I find very interesting is it all kind of links back to India more or less it comes back to Asia, right? So the gurus that came over from the US in the 1920s and 30s and created something there and then a lot of Americans came back there and then the whole industry was created. And so you know whenever I hear the word spirituality it kind of triggers a little bit more of a bit of cynicism initially simply because it’s sometimes you feel it’s a corruption of what the actual true you know teachings were back in India and Asia a lot people just don’t read those teachings right and so and so then create their own I guess narrative which is very far removed from what the actual teachings tell you. So you know how did you try to overcome that because I’m assuming that I’m probably not the only person that would have looked at this and said OK spiritual business mastery this sounds a bit fufu, a bit fluffy. You know, when people come up to you and ask you about it, you know what, what’s the core essence that you’re trying to do. And I acknowledge that you said that. You know, it’s a lot about understanding yourself and reading some of the reviews, they’re very much talking about how you allow enable persons to unlock access, I guess their own inner, you know, confidence or whatever it is that they’re lacking. But you know, what do you, you know, what do you tell people when they first come to you and what are they expecting from you?

00:09:59 Manoj Sangany:

I think they don’t know what to expect from me as honest answer because what they read online because I’m doing quite a few different things and they obviously can’t with a perceived challenge that is either in their mind or a physical challenge or their environmental challenge. So they’re obviously coming to seek some kind of answers. And I think going back to your original point, I actually agree with you. I find that quite fascinating. There are so many sort of proclaimed gurus out there. But I think ultimately we are our own guru and all the answers are within. Sometimes we just need other people, whether you want to call it a coach, mentor, accountability partner, business partner, friend, husband, or wife to actually unlock what’s already inside you. So I think that because I think if you sort of proclaim to be a guru, I think then that’s when ego comes in. And I think ego is a very dangerous thing. And so, yeah, so that word is, I don’t hold anybody on a pedestal, you know, personally by the cloth they wear or or or or how many millions of followers like you mentioned somebody has or they’ve written a book or not. I think there’s so many beautiful normal people out there that are not even famous or discovered that have some profound stories, and I think everyone has a story. So I think when they come to me, I start off with my story and I asked them to share their story. So the ground is level, if that makes sense in terms of commonality and the conversation just naturally flows.

00:11:26 Bhairav Patel:

So one of the things I found fascinating is you have a very much focus on ROI when it comes to promoting it. So showing it basically you do within, even in your LinkedIn profile, you talk about how you’ve helped people boost sales or launch into new markets, new products. And that is something that I’ve not come across when I and I’ve interviewed a number of different coaches on the podcast and their focus has never really been on actual results. In that respect, it’s much more again less well-defined personal achievements rather than real concrete goals. Now, I’m fascinated by that. So is that something that you kind of recognize that people needed in order to kind of come to you in that sense that, you know, OK, I can come to you, but I’m is that really going to help my business or is it something you felt was important from the beginning, that, you know, the advice you’re giving is not just you know, advice. There is a consequence to that advice.

00:12:21 Manoj Sangany:

Yeah, I think that’s a great question, actually. And no one’s ever asked me that question and to be honest with you, but so I think the honest truth about that is that I. Don’t have any certifications. As I mentioned earlier on, I did it through a social experiment, so I fell in love with coaching and then I commercialized it and I think for me that worked because it was my, was it my ego, you know, in track? Can I really do this? Do I have an MVP?  Have I actually? Have I qualified the product or service enough to warrant it? Have I got enough testimonials? All the usual stuff that entrepreneurs go through. So the fact that I loved doing it and then I created it as a business sits true to my values personally. The second is, and you can ask any of my clients and I never have a contract, which is quite controversial. So if somebody does not feel that they’ve got value from my coaching sessions, they do not pay me. And that is my, one of my, I wouldn’t even call it a USP, it’s more deep in that it’s my values. So therefore quantifying that upfront and being transparent that what you get. Is almost like guaranteed output, if you like. So it’s less about the ROI in the conventional way that we talk about ROI as business leaders, but it’s more about. How do I communicate that into a simple narrative that people who don’t know me understand it and that’s the only reason why I put it down?

00:13:46 Bhairav Patel:

So what are common challenges that you see people facing at the moment? I mean, I would assume the last few years has been obviously COVID and. Now, the big talker recession, things are, it’s kind of a fluid landscape, right? In that sense that there are lots of different things that people will find challenging. But has there been anything common over the last and how many years have you been doing this for five years?

00:14:07 Manoj Sangany:

Just over 5, I believe formally kind of 2017, but really through the social experiment longer than that, but yeah.

00:14:15 Bhairav Patel:

So what are the common challenges are you seeing over those five years that people have faced? And is it mostly entrepreneurs you deal with?

00:14:20 Manoj Sangany:

No, its business owners. It’s teachers. It’s people in, you know, sort of I guess, everyday professions. And it’s people who are retired actually. One of them actually was a monk. So that threw me that that, that threw me for six because I’m like, whoa, so that that was when I had imposter syndrome, to be honest with you in the build-up for that conversation. And that I had a little bit of anxiety going into that conversation, but that wasn’t charged because it was a monk. So that was more giving back, if you like. But I think. I think the common thread. Like thread being the operative word because I’m just kind of visualizing this. And. I don’t know if it’s because jumper because it’s Christmas season or about a thread being a sort of holding if you like and the jumper kind of being unravelled.

I think it’s people’s s mind, and it’s their mindset, is the most common thing, like all the things under the umbrella of what they’re trying to achieve. Actually they were blocking them themselves. So what I mean by that is that most of the people that I’ve spoken to were coming at it from elements or totality of scarcity mindset, meaning they can’t do this, they can’t have this because it’s a generational thing. They’ve got a bad relationship with money, for example. They’re, you know, Asian parents. Have said “ohh, save save save save, save”. So therefore they think ohh, let’s not invest, invest and it’s scary now to invest. And so I think the common thread would be mindset, but mindset. Everyone uses that word so and then everyone also uses the comparison between scarcity and growth mindset. But I think that is it. So whether it’s through parental, environmental, or social influences, that’s the common thread. So once you help them, help themselves through that mindset and unlock what they already know because what they know is not in their consciousness. Between the subconscious, so they already have the answers. It’s just unravelling it like like I said, like a thread so that that will be the commonality. But the topics range, they’re so diverse.

00:16:26 Bhairav Patel:

So what’s your process? When someone comes to you, how do they? How do you? Is there a specific kind of? Methodology for want of a better term? Or is it just an open conversation?

00:16:38 Manoj Sangany:

So there is a combination of methodology, but it starts with an open conversation because I think if somebody does not feel comfortable and it’s the same whether it’s an interview, you know, job interview, you know, whether you’re meeting someone for a date, dating for the first time, I think you have to be a good listener and you have to understand their energy. You know, I love talking about energy frequency migration because I think everyone on this whole planet can be summed up as being. In a certain energy, frequency and vibration. So I think once you understand that narrative and where they’re coming from and you’re not being, you know, prescribing anything because I think that’s a dangerous thing to prescribe something before you actually know. Who they are? The methodology is visualization. So I’m I used to draw the only thing I used to be good at in school so I visualize. It’’s their life map if you like. So where you’re starting from where you need to get to and the process of how to get there. So I draw it so I draw out live in front of them while some of the individual and they keep that or they take a picture of it and so it sets where they are, it sets where they need to be and it sets the sequence of moves what they need to do and actions to get there. So that’s the methodology but it’s very natural. It’s very natural and each one is completely different.

00:17:58 Bhairav Patel:

Is this something that you employed yourself for your own journey?

00:18:03 Manoj Sangany:

Yeah, yeah. I didn’t in the beginning and I thought ”ohh, why am I not doing this, man?” I’m so I actually did. But it was a bit difficult to do it on my own because you know, like I said, everybody needs somebody right, in terms of to hold themselves accountable. So I actually did do a visualization on myself and I did do the journey map and I think I found it quite difficult at the time, which sounds a bit silly because it’s so easy for me to do it for others. But I found it quite profound when I did do it. So I thought that cause that’s quite ironic though. Like you said, I’m doing it for everyone, I’m not doing it for myself. So I did it. I did in the end, but not in the beginning.

00:18:41 Bhairav Patel:

I think it’s always very hard to take yourself out of yourself. That makes any sense, right? Because you need to in any way. You need to have a bit of a third party, not necessarily honestly, but someone who doesn’t have skin in the game to basically tell you where you could go wrong or going right. I think that’s absolutely that’s the key. OK, so let’s move on a little bit to the, the men’s mental health piece. And again, I’m sorry, I’ve forgotten the name of it?

00:19:05 Manoj Sangany:

Mindful Men’s Club.

00:19:07 Bhairav Patel:

Mindful Men’s Club, right. Yeah. How did that begin?

00:19:12 Manoj Sangany:
Wow. OK, so I was going through my own mental health journey. In the extremity of the spectrum. So, so you know, there is a mental health spectrum, if you like, for a better word, from sort of mild anxiousness, anxiety to obviously the extremity of being suicidal. So that was in a very dark place a few years ago. And a lady reached out to me on Facebook and saying, ohh, I’d like, you know, the positive sort of, you know, things you do. So I’m, I’m also a creative storyteller. So I love writing through stories, through lived experience because it frees my own mind. So quite a long story short, she connected. I live in Harrow and in Harrow Arts Center they had a men’s and women’s mental health. I’m like, wow, OK, I could. So, you know, I need this. I didn’t realize it existed for men because I googled it, didn’t find anything. Went there after two sessions. Loved it, loved it. But I asked myself like looked around and said to her, where’s the men? It’s me and one other guy. So they were trying to get men and women to come together to talk about their. Mental health and mental well-being amongst Asians. So it was a very specific group for South Asians because nothing like that ever existed. Then she asked me to do a talk. I had imposter syndrome so let me do a talk with mentor. I’m coming to you for support. Like, what do you mean cut a Long story short? I said yes because I kind of tend to wear my heart must leave. And I say yes to a lot of things. Sometimes it gets me in trouble, sometimes it leads me down wonderful roads in life. So I said yes. So Sunday was the talk. Saturday I had a mental health breakdown. So I went through all the narrative in my mind saying. “Do I not show up? No Manoj,  that’s not you. You know you’re too honest for that and it’ll be kind of you’ll be guilt-ridden if you don’t show up. Do I show up and not how can I feel others sort of cups if I if I’m sort of still going through my process.”  All the kind of narrative went through in the end I ripped up the talk because I did read some research. And you know, when you’re doing a talk, you think I’ve got a study of what to do this.

00:21:27 Manoj Sangany:

I don’t even know what I researched to be fair to this day because it’s just out of my brain. So I ripped it up and I stayed off the talk with I had a breakdown last night and then that must have resonated with I think there was about 19-20 people there and then the week later the lady goes you so need to do this for men because we tried and as you can see men don’t find it comfortable coming to a group let alone group with women and women don’t find it comfortable talking about specific issues and you know whether it’s menstrual cycles. Menopause or whatever it is, right? We’re just topics that men talk about but, but, but, but the clash of the two masculine and female, I guess genders didn’t quite go to plan. And then she said, oh, I think you should start something up. And again that managed that. Says yes first and doesn’t think about it. Said yes OK, why not? But didn’t have a clue he said. And I realized when I went home, I actually don’t know what I said to her because I just said yes, I’ll do it, but I don’t know how. Like how do I start it? Like who do I speak to? So I met a couple of men. You and I met through. Uh, just another uh coaching initiative in the city that used to go to and then I think 3 Costa coffees later we live doodled the logo, formed the name, registered the name and then yeah, we delivered our first workshop in Watford because this was pre COVID so actually we weren’t on Zoom. So we did meditations, ice breakers, physical exercises, and the only thing that we drew. Is from lived experience, not from books. That was our kind of simple sort of motto. So that. So the mantra was for Mindful Men’s Club is connect, grow and inspire. So connect with like minded men. And it started off with S Asians. Now it’s open to anyone, OK? And then grow, grow together through each other’s story and narrative and lived experience and inspire, not us inspire them, but you guys inspire each other in the community. So that’s actually how it started.

00:23:28 Bhairav Patel:

So I guess one of the first questions there is. Players have been so difficult for South Asian men to kind of come together and do something like this because it’s again, when I heard this, I realized, well, there’s nothing I’ve ever come across in all the 46 years I’ve been alive. That, and if you look at my parents generation or the generation above, they would never have anything like this. Other than, you know, getting around and drinking a cup of tea, you know, and that would be it. But then there wouldn’t really be discussing anything serious, right? So why? Why is it that you don’t think this has happened before? Or has it happened we just didn’t know about?

00:24:03 Manoj Sangany:

So I honestly don’t know if it has happened before because I haven’t found one. So that’s why we set ours up. So if there is, I’d love for people to sort of contact us and then we can collaborate together. I think why I think that it hasn’t happened before is purely because from a cultural generation perspective it is frowned upon to actually talk about mental health because mental health in 2nd, 3rd, 4th generations I’m going, you know, back, I guess, to my own kind of culture from being from Indian origin is that you just our previous generations just didn’t talk about what was going through their minds. They just grafted it. They grinded it. They brought, you know that they brought the food home on the table. They didn’t talk about mental health. They didn’t have time to talk, I guess even to breathe if you like, to some degree so. This is that. This is where that gratitude comes to mind. You know what my parents did for me? I’m internally grateful, but I know hands down that they went through loads of stuff that most parents go through, but they want to protect their children. So then it’s a narrative that gets passed on through generations saying let’s not talk about it, let’s not talk about it. Which is why the first thing you see on my LinkedIn is the video for Mindful Men’s Club. It’s raw footage. There’s lots of “urms, buts, maybes” because we weren’t ready for it because we were in the garden. My friend said let’s just record. What do you mean, record? Just trust me, let’s record. And it’s like that Homer Simpsons cartoon where it starts off with everyone on the sofa but, you know, a bit of a. Rushed away if that makes sense. Yeah if I’m saying that right. But yeah I’m watching some pages but that stuck in my mind and we were like that live characters didn’t know what we’re doing did the first ever video. So that was the first ever video that we did of why we slide Mindful Men’s Club. So but I think the answer to your question is we have to break this generational gap especially amongst South Asian men. And most men tend to open up when they’re under the influence whether that’s you know alcohol or drugs because they’re guards down. But why does it need to take that? Like, why can’t it just be like me and you right now having a normal conversation, not any inhibitions about it. And, and I think part of it is that when you share your own story, it’s a liberating feeling. So it frees you, it frees others around you and it becomes more accessible. So I think the more of us talk about it.

00:26:23 Manoj Sangany:

Then is changing, but with South Asian men, I think we’re way, way, way behind, have to go on the city.

00:26:28 Bhairav Patel:

Yeah. And I think there’s agree with everything you said. And I think also if you kind of add on to the fact that when we came to the UK that was that stiff upper lip thing that happened as well, right so you ended up compounded with the situation where no one talks about anything, no one talks about feelings and in Asian families and then you’re going to a country where no one really talks about anything anyway. And so that kind of.

00:26:48 Manoj Sangany:

Compounds me, isn’t it? Yeah.

00:26:50 Bhairav Patel:

Which I think is interesting and plus I think it was that’s not there was definitely an aspect of you know things being frowned upon but also the fact was that there was no way to there was no way there were no pioneers like yourselves right. So no one could understand how it could be better in that sense. You know you didn’t understand you know what would talking about actually give you because no one had done it before. So no one could point to the fact that you know you go and do that because most people would I guess they escape would have been the either the good war or it would been there Monday or whatever that would been their escape right. That would have been there. Period of peacefulness, but they’re not. Everybody had the time. My dad, you know, was a newsagent, so he wouldn’t be going anywhere seven days a week, right. So then there wouldn’t be any chance to kind of have that piece all that time for yourself, I guess. And the other thing is that we all live with massive families, right. So again, you, you really don’t have that period of of calm in a house where you can just take 5 minutes for yourself without there being someone else in the house that would disturb you, which is I think all of those compound the issue I think in, in many ways.

00:27:58 Manoj Sangany:

Yeah, something interesting you just said there, that is that we all take solace in places of spiritual sanctuary where wherever that is, you know, whether it’s a mosque and a church gurdwara or, you know, a temple and. That’s OK and that’s good because that’s like the journey of you kind of wanting to do something for yourself. But I think with that external search of peace I think you have to at some point and it’s. I can’t say when for everyone decide when to share your story with somebody you trust in the medium that you choose that is OK for you. It doesn’t have to be public – doesn’t have to be video. It could be a voice note, it could be a journal it could be something. But once you share that. Then the piece becomes I guess more accessible because then you’re combining the internal place of sanctuary, wherever that is, with the internal story that you’ve shared and and and that’s I think there’s something peaceful about that in your mind.

00:28:58 Bhairav Patel:

So one of the, I don’t know this say I guess you and I have similar upbringings, right? So how did you get over the the kind of not taboo, but you know the constraint where you know your parents always tell you don’t tell other people your business. There’s always that especially in my family, they’re basically say, you know, don’t tell people your business because they’ll use it against you. They’ll be this one thinking that we all live in some sort of dynasty or Dallas world where, you know, we, we’re all conspiring against each other. But in their heads, I think that’s that’s what life was like back in the day, right? It was a dog eat dog world. And anyway, to get one up on your neighbour was a way to move forward, right? So how did you kind of break that? Because that’s just the barrier, right? That’s a big trust barrier, and I think that’s a huge hurdle to overcome with most South Asian men or man from India, let’s put it that way.

00:29:47 Manoj Sangany:

Yeah, I think it’s, it’s huge. And I’ve got close friends who are still finding it a challenge to sort of open up because their trust is being abused and things they’ve said in confidentiality have then been repeated. So then the guard is even more up. So they’re even more sort of stepped up than they were before. But I think for me personally, I’ve always been quiet liberal and I’ve always been quite, I’m not sure if it’s because my star signs are Taurus, but I’m not very outspoken in in the most respectful way I hope for anyone listening. I’ve always been liberal and I think 3 letters you know OPO, so other people’s opinion matter not to me. So I’ll say that again, OPO other people’s opinion matter. Not to me unless it comes from the heart, meaning that unless you’re doing it with good intention. So I have very good clarity of filtering out the noise and the negativity. And then I guess my moral compass is able to navigate through that. And it’s a bit like, you know, when someone tells you, I’m sure you’ve had it yourself, I don’t do that business you’re crazy,  why would you do that? And I’m like, and everyone’s got that kind of an So an unclie who who actually, quite ironically, is broke himself, but he’s giving you the entrepreneur advice, right? Obviously, namely uncle. But not everyone has that kind of friend or uncle or someone who’s going to give you that narrative. And I think you just have to fail fast, fail forward, and don’t, don’t in the most respectful way, don’t care what other people think. Because if you let other people’s expectations and judgments influence your own mind, then you will never do what you’re meant to do and whatever you want to do, only you know. Like that’s what I mean without getting sort of too deep into that subject. So it’s a bit like when you’re driving a car and then you’ve got sort of somebody who’s negative. I always use the narrative and keep when you drive, you put your seat belt on so you look after yourself first and then you look at, you do the checks, don’t you? The mirrors are supposed to, but then you obviously look at the rear view mirror. So when you look at the review mirror, my narrative is that anybody who’s negative, they’re behind me, then they’re not with me in the journey and I’m only going to open the door to passengers who are gonna help positively influence my life. So that’s how I kind of internalize it.

00:32:05 Bhairav Patel

So how does the Mindful’s Men’s club work, I know you obviously you deliver kind of talks or podcasts online, obviously they’re you got physical meetings back I guess now.

00:32:16 Manoj Sangany:

No, no, because now the audience. So we did two workshops at the spiritual sanctuary. That’s what for Temple. And the reason we chose that is that anybody’s accessible. That doesn’t matter what your culture is, your religion or your belief systems. You can go to that. That’s why we did it there, just from a place of neutrality because one of the guys suggested let’s do it in a pub on like you can’t do that because one guy is suffering from alcoholism. So hello, that squashed right away. But anyway, so how it did work was two workshops and then COVID hit. So we had to pivot. And by pivot, I mean go on Zoom. And then because the audience is so dispersed in different countries, we actually can’t now go back to. We can, but then we’ll alienate the audience that we’ve actually gotten out. So it’s actually all on zoom. It used to be biweekly, but the the kind of had a strategy session with the team and then we’re gonna do 12 sessions where they gonna be monthly, so once a month and they’re 12 topics. And the topics are a combination. So it’s Zoom, it’s not recorded for obvious reasons. It’s a private space. And then yeah. And then after the Zoom we go live on Facebook and then because we go live on Facebook. That’s what you see uploaded, uh, like unedited in terms of the footage, literally unedited, apart from captions obviously onto the YouTube channel. And that’s literally what happens. And the reason we go live on Facebook, really, really important for the female audiences listening is that majority, I think it’s above 50% now of audience on Facebook, even though the groups for men are women. Because they have a male figure in their life who is not listening to them or doesn’t have access to the video to a group like this and says you need to talk to these guys, whether that’s the father, the brother, the son, the boyfriend, whoever. So that’s literally how it works.

00:34:08 Manoj Sangany:

That interesting. One final point. What’s really interesting is that now the topics that actually get sent to us on our topics. So they’re from females saying please don’t mention my name, but I’m going through this situation or this situation and then can you please talk about this? So what’s beautiful is even though the groups are for men, there’s actually an influence from the females because they are suggesting some of those topics.

00:34:37 Bhairav Patel:

So I would assume that the dynamic of Zoom is much is very different from in-person. So does it work in the same way?

00:34:45 Manoj Sangany:

People in the beginning. Everyone instead of a camera.

00:34:48 Bhairav Patel:

Right. Yeah, I can imagine that, yeah.

00:34:50 Manoj Sangany:

Because everyone was shy. So, you know, we’ve laughed together, we’ve cried together on Zoom. So it’s very much a tight family and we’ve actually met up through socials as well, you know, in restaurants. So some of the people who’ve been talking to you for years virtually have actually met people face to face. So the dynamic is very much very close. Like like there’s so much trust. It’s really hard to even explain or fathom here because people have shared things that they’ve quoted on the Zoom call that they’ve never shared with anyone in their life including their partners. So we’re very, we’re very grateful that  they can share that openly.

00:35:30 Bhairav Patel:

But how do you maintain that level and grow I guess is the other issue, right? Because you can’t. If you suddenly have 100 people on a Zoom call, that would make it a little bit unwieldy, right?

00:35:40 Manoj Sangany:

Yeah, we did think about that and we we will I guess come to that situation at some point. But we’re far from that right now because the numbers are you know 15s -20s, 25s. I think those numbers, the idea of making it accessible, I guess that’s where the YouTube channel comes in and it’s a bit like a radio station is like the narrative I like to use. So you might be kissed 100, I might be Magic FM. So if there’s a topic you resonate to you dial in you. Allow. And that would be a forever, I guess library of content that when we’re gone, we’re along here that people can access. So the scalability I think and the vision is from making the content online. But the accessibility in the beginning, you’re right because there are certain limitations. You can’t have like 100 or 200 people on, well you can, but just wouldn’t be the same dynamic, right. So we are contemplating whether to do quarterly workshops as well in person as well to kind of make bring that human element. Back into it. I think so. But yeah. But no. Great question, but yeah, yeah.

00:36:44 Bhairav Patel

So just nearing the end of the podcast, a couple more questions. So what kind of topics do you normally engage with?

00:36:52 Manoj Sangany:
Anything from masculine and female energy going into spirituality, money, mindset because a lot of people suffered and are still suffering in terms of cost of living topics that are topical, they asked us to have another session. So money mindset, we’ve done one and two. Spirituality. We’ve done one and two, and you can do both of those forever and ever and ever and have a series of its own abuse, suicide. So much topics like it’s so I think it’s about 70 right now we’ve done but so many yeah.

00:37:27 Bhairav Patel:

And so how do people find both yourself from  Spiritual Business Mastery and the Mindful Men’s Club? How do you find by either of these things? So the best way to engage?

00:37:37 Manoj Sangany:

Basically I think the best way to engage with the Mindful Men’s Club is because I’ll give that a shout-out. I don’t really promote my own. I think if they find me find me the Mindful Men’s Club that you can actually access through all socials. So just type look for mindful Men’s Club on YouTube, Men’s Club and Insta as well Mindful Men’s Club. So that’s the best way. I think if you Google Mindful Men’s Club you’ll you’ll find us and the individuals behind it.

00:38:07 Bhairav Patel:

And so my final question to you is, if you could go back in time 20 years and give advice to your younger self, what would that advice be? And you can’t say buy Bitcoin or a Tesla.

00:38:16 Manoj Sangany:

Yeah. I think the old Manoj would have been sort of, yeah, that would be easy. No, I think this simple advice is that I wished in generally, in a genuine way, that I embraced spirituality sooner because it would have massively not just transformed my life earlier, but allowed me to, in a humble way, touch the lives of others. So I guess, yeah, if I found spirituality sooner, that would be the honest answer now. But if you ask me, 10 years ago, I’d be Bitcoin.

00:38:51 Bhairav Patel:

Well thanks for that Manoj. It’s been fascinating and I hope other well anyone who’s listening to this that feels that they want to reach out to you can reach out to you but also get involved with the mindful Mental Health Club. It’s a very interesting I’m definitely gonna listen to a few more of the the the videos on on.

00:39:08 Manoj Sangany:
YouTube for sure. No, thank you. And thank you so much for having me and for asking me some really, really interesting questions and making me think as well. So thank you for that.

00:39:17 Bhairav Patel

Thanks for listening to the podcast. If you like what you hear, then please subscribe to the Atom Ventures podcast and you can find us on Stitcher, Spotify, Google Podcast, Apple Podcast or the Great podcasting sites. Please also leave a review and if you want to get in contact then please visit our site You can find us on LinkedIn under item ventures and atoms CTO and you can e-mail us at

We’ll be your virtual Chief Technology Officer
Whether faith in the existing team has been eroded, your current tech team needs a senior mentor, or you need a new tech vision for the company, Atom CTO is here to support you.